Talking with Detransitioner Chloe Cole

Chloe Cole’s prominence as a detransitioner stems from her willingness to share her deeply personal story with authenticity and conviction. Through her social media presence and powerful congressional testimonies, she has become a leading voice in advocating for greater caution and support in the treatment of gender dysphoria, particularly for young people.

When Diana Lutfi, the civil rights lawyer who penned the Amicus Brief for the Skrmetti v. US case, invited me to attend the oral arguments at the Supreme Court, she introduced me to Chloe Cole. Diana had been involved in writing the Tennessee legislation which got challenged by the Supreme Court and organizing detransitioners like Chloe Cole along with other organizations to participate in this U.S. Supreme Court case. This case underscores the importance of informed consent in medical procedures, especially with minors, and it's a responsibility we all share to ensure that individuals are fully aware of the implications of their decisions.

The following is a story about my discussion with Chloe Cole on the eve of the US v. Skrmetti US Supreme Court case in September 2024. We sat down in a DC restaurant and discussed her story, why she was here, about ketamine and how she wished she had known about it while going through her gender dysphoria.

Chloe asked her surgeon to remove her normal breasts when she was just fifteen. Unfortunately, her therapists and doctors blindly rushed Chloe through the system. She had no idea what she was getting herself into or the ramifications of her decisions. She wasn’t told that puberty blockers can affect bone growth and density and cause sexual dysfunction, voice damage, and infertility, among other issues. In contrast, cross-sex hormones can cause infertility, deadly blood clots, heart attacks, increased risk of both breast and ovarian cancers, liver dysfunction, worsening psychological illness, and other serious conditions.

I became interested in Chloe Cole’s gender dysphoria and detransitioner case after listening to her on a podcast with Jordan Peterson. Cole said, “I’m somebody who went through this as a child, and I’ve seen just how horrific it is not to go through the trend, the process of a medical transition, but to do so while you’re still developing. I was put on puberty blockers, a chemical castration drug to stop my puberty, and weekly testosterone injections at the age of 13. And at 15 years old, I underwent irreversible surgery to remove my breasts. No child should ever be given the chance to go through any of this because it is abusive, it’s detrimental to their development, and they deserve better.”

I clarified that I was one of the doctors who contributed to the medical portion of the Amicus Brief, a document that provides additional information or arguments in support of one of the parties in a case, which Diana Lutfi authored for the Skrmetti v. US case. Then, I discovered that Jordan Peterson had also signed on to the Amicus brief, further underscoring the importance of our collective stance on this issue (here).

Transgender Surgeries and Lobotomies

My conversation with Chloe began with a stark realization: transgender surgeries, particularly in children, bear a striking resemblance to the controversial lobotomies of the 1940s. It’s a chilling parallel, especially considering that the inventor of the lobotomy was awarded a Nobel Prize. Lobotomies were once widely accepted; physicians recommended them, and women sought them out. How could this happen? The situation today feels eerily similar, with women requesting surgeons remove their healthy breasts. The echoes of history are deeply unsettling.

Both procedures involve irreversible physical alterations to the body, often without fully addressing the underlying psychological issues. This comparison serves as a cautionary tale, highlighting the potential dangers of medical interventions for mental health conditions. Both procedures can have profound and long-lasting effects on the individual's physical and mental health. They are intended to 'cure' a condition, but in reality, they fail to address the root cause of the problem, leading to a false sense of resolution.

Chloe said, “Just like what we have now, they’re asking for their breasts to be removed. They’re asking for these surgeries. And I say, you know, the medical profession is advocating for these surgeries, unfortunately, like prefrontal lobotomies. We still haven’t learned. That’s such a great point.”

It’s hard to imagine today that someone would request the removal of part of their frontal cortex by having a pick inserted through the inner portion of the eye into the brain. In many cases, surgeons performed these lobotomies without anesthesia. To be sure, the risks of anesthesia were significantly higher in those days.

Lobotomies injure an essential part of the prefrontal cortex, that part of your brain involved in forming thoughts and controlling emotions. It’s essential in inhibiting many emotions and impulses. It’s your judgment and inhibition area. It’s how you process and plan your thoughts. One of the historical cases of lobotomies involves a man named Phineas Gage. A rod traversed his chin into his brain, and he lived. His case highlights the result of having a lobotomy - and everybody who knew this person said, ‘Gage isn’t Gage anymore.’ He became aggressive and zombie-like.

Chloe and I agreed that the current approach to mental health treatment serves as a troubling reminder of how we’re over-medicating children, particularly with ADHD medications. Antidepressants and stimulants often turn children into zombies, numbing the part of the cortex that supports emotional and cognitive growth. This approach doesn’t just suppress normal responses—it dulls one’s humanity. Chloe paused and said, “I haven’t thought about it that way. Numbing your humanity.”

Ketamine

I then brought up the subject of ketamine and gender dysphoria to Chloe and she was immediately interested. I explained that I did a SPEAK event talk (like a TED Talk). It’s on YouTube (here). I treat suicidal and severely depressed patients with ketamine. Chloe said that she had heard about ketamine being used for veterans, PTSD and stuff.

I asked Chloe about her stance on ketamine and if she knew anything about it. Chloe had many questions about ketamine and its use for mental disorders. She knew it was a party drug but had no idea that it could be used to treat mental disorders and suicide. She asked if ketamine was used around the time of lobotomies. I explained, ketamine wasn’t used back then; it wasn’t introduced until 1960; lobotomies were in the 1930s and 40s.

Chloe then asked, “What’s the correlation between the two? Ketamine and suicide.” I explained that suicide is defined as hopelessness, isolation, and burden. You’re a burden to those around you, or you perceive you are. And you’re in a vulnerable place with access to a lethal means. When all those things align, you are at a high risk to commit suicide or take your life.” Chloe explained that she’d contemplated suicide before. “I want to live, but this hope is lost.”

Chloe asked me, “What do you think about the use of psychedelic substances?” I answered, “they all have similarities, LSD, psilocybin, ayahuasca, MDMA, and ketamine. They’re all have different psychedelic properties.” I explained that all I know is ketamine. I’ve never prescribed anything else.

Chloe mentioned, “I’ve had some parents come to me like, hey, my son or daughter are suffering from gender dysphoria. Do you think this could help them?”

I answered. “Have you used it? No, she said, “I haven’t had the chance to use it in this situation, to be honest. But some parents have reached out to me. Just because they’re in different states, I couldn’t help them.” I said, “yes, you should do this.”

When Gender, Time, and Reality Dissolves

When you step beyond the boundaries of ordinary consciousness, something profound happens—everything you think you know starts to dissolve. The constructs that anchor time and reality begins to fade. The sense of place, the "where" that grounds you, blurs into a vast, undefined expanse. And among these dissolving structures, gender—such a deeply ingrained part of identity—also slips away.

Imagine that for a moment. The labels of male or female, the roles and expectations tied to them, the way they shape how you move through the world—they all vanish. In that space, you’re not defined by a body, a pronoun, or a societal script. You’re just you—a pure essence, untethered from the binary.

Chloe, at this moment, was utterly floored. Her eyes widened as the idea sank in, unraveling everything she’d taken for granted about herself and the world. What does it mean to exist without those markers? To be neither male nor female, but something more universal, more infinite? The thought was both a revelation and a challenge. I continued, the further you are away from your body and consciousness into whatever realm we’re in when we’re in these psychedelic experiences, the fact that you’re male or female becomes less and less.

Chloe responded, “Why the hell are we so obsessed with this here and now? I mean, when you die, of course, you go somewhere else. I believe in death.

I asked her if she was religious by chance. Christian? Catholic? She said, “I’m a Protestant myself—a lot of what you’re saying resonates with me. Before I became a Christian, I had a psychedelic experience myself. Gender turned out to be one of the things that I was curious about.”

I will always remember my discussion with Chloe Cole. She is a bastion of trying to correct the path young kids have veered onto at no fault of their own. The Supreme court came back with a 6-3 decision in favor of Tennessee and Skrmetti. The fight certainly isn’t over, in fact it’s just the start. We need to remember that this is part of the transhumanist movement that will likely never end.

Refs

Ketamine - Anesthetic to Healer: IHMC talk (link)

US v. Skrmetti – giving the Amicus Brief to Jordan Peterson